Is Learning Picking Up All About Manipulation?
You would be surprised how many WOMEN out there cannot stand PUA’s.
They think that people like Mystery and David Deangelo are frauds, who are corrupt and teach men how to manipulate women.
They make comments like … we don’t fall for this stuff. People who use these techniques on us and it doesn’t work.
Well I can say .. is that if you had an advanced PUA approach you and hit on you … you would not even know what hit you.
What irritates me the most is that these women, who know nothing from nothing about the pick up scene or seduction, make all these wild accusations and assumptions about the men who learn this stuff.
What they don’t understand is the difference between the logical/rational and the emotional/illogical.
So I’m here to educate. But first lets have in mind the question.
Who does this PUA stuff really benefit, if anyone at all?
So here is a compilation from the blog Attraction Chronicles.
I have listed some comments that females made about David D and what I said in response it.
Lisa’s post: “First of all, the majority of the regular members here are women. The women here will tell you that David Deangelo’s crap doesn’t work. Therefore, you clearly don’t know what works with women. Maybe Double Your Dating works with brainless skanks who just want a one night stand, but it doesn’t work with women with any intelligence or sense of self-worth. If that’s the type of person you want to be, and want to be with, then yay for you. However, that’s not what this site is about. I suggest you move on down the web… Contrary to what you say and believe, the type of guy I wanted is the kind who isn’t so insecure that he has to read a manual to “get chicks.” The type of guy who doesn’t want to “get chicks” or “double his dating”, but to have a real relationship with a real woman. Well, whaddya know. I just described my husband.”
Serendipity’s post: “The reason I worry about it? One because David Deangelo is taking advantage of vulnerable guys with no self esteem. Second, because I am sick to death of being hit on by guys using these kind of stupid techniques. Fortunately, I can usually get rid of them, but it’s annoying and demeaning… Possibly this sort of corny rehearsed cocky shit works if you’re looking for some drunken brainless skanky ho to have a one night stand in a club with. Not so much if you’re looking for a real relationship with a real, intelligent, educated, non-shallow woman. I am one, I think I would know.”
Susan’s Post: I first have to admit I have not read ALL of David’s book, but have a very personal friend who decided to try this after his 2nd divorce. I would like to thank David for turning a loving, caring, successful man & father into a total JERK!! Yes, he was somewhat insecure before, but in order for him to gain this extroverted ,”Cocky & Funny” and shit attitude, he started drinking again after 11 YEARS SOBER!! Nice work David!!!I think there are enough “Bad Boys” out there (I have dated enough of them ) that David doesn’t need to add more to the male race.
I am a good looking, intelligent woman, and if someone came up to me and acted the way you suggest I wouldn’t give him the time of day. I think this crap would work on the younger girls ,as they don’t have a lot of guy experience, but using it on a woman who is mature.. FORGET IT. Seems all this crap is good for is for men to find a quick “Hump and Dump” not a loving , lasting relationship!!But I guess we all have to make a buck somehow and if David DeAngelo can live with himself selling this crap to the men with low self esteem and lack of social skills kudos for him, he has just joined the ranks of slimy con artist and I wouldn’t want to be him when he meets his maker!!
Hot Alpha Female’s Post: You know the reason why chicks cant stand David D? Coz what he has to teach works and these chicks are falling for his students left right and center.
Don’t know what’s wrong with these women. I love David D for what he is, what he teaches and ultimately for the great value that he gives to his students, his people and his clients.
I personally think that David D is doing a favor for all girls out there. Because he is helping the NICE guys gets noticed. He is putting more loyal and genuine guys out there who want to find a girlfriend and be happy.
He isn’t about producing sleaze bags. Although maybe some guys have mastered his techniques and are abusing his rules a bit. But hey there are always some exceptions to the rules.
Like heaps of people have commented on here. The main thing that David D teaches is self confidence. I believe that is the only thing that really holds back a guy in the dating world.
He teaches you the skills that your dad should have taught you. He is the coach that you never had.
I mean I cant speak from the perspective of him being my personal coach. But I have seen many of my friends (male) who have gone through the program and just in general come out at better, more interesting and more confident people.
If you went through a David D program and that is the only thing you got out of it .. a boost in self confidence, well I still think that he would have given you something highly invaluable.
What do you guys reckon? Is becoming A PUA all about manipulation? Or do you believe that these self help gurus are actually really changing people’s lives for the better? What have been some of your experiences?
Hot Alpha Female
Well, my boyfriend openly admitted to me that he watched the PUA and used a handful of techniques on me (we talk and laugh about the negs he’s thrown and the stuff he’s used). I admire him for his honesty and he’s proving to be one of those “loyal and genuine guys out there who want to find a girlfriend and be happy”. The stuff he’s learned helps him better understand the opposite sex and in turn helps our communication
Having said that, I’ve seen quite a couple of players out there who have used the techniques to manipulate women into falling for them so I guess it’s all about personal choice. All I can say is, don’t shoot the messenger!
Interesting perspective there Alpha.
As a guy, the thing that puts me off the PUA training methods is that they might actually work!
Let’s say that I went to a club with a wingman, acted like an arrogant douche badboy and got laid on the basis of that fake persona.
How much would I hate both myself and the woman I picked up the next day?
This doesn’t just apply to one-night stands. The idea of pretending to be something I’m not in a relationship sounds hellish.
My 20 year marriage was very much on the verge of ending, with several children involved. My wife was treating me like dirt and at one time got a little too physical with another guy, and in public. I won’t go into the details, I looked everywhere for advice, but something clicked in my mind when I started reading about PUAs. So I studied like hell.
Now I flirt with other women in front of her, talk about the girls in work, especially if they have complimented me or done something nice for me. Always wear aftershave to work and not when its my day off. Dress really well, extra well when I am not with her and she knows I am going out, I will ignore her and walk away from her often, especially after kissing her – I am always first to make and first to break, Stopped saying sorry, even when I know I should. I leave her walk home from work instead of waiting with the car, though I will fetch her if she phones, but not if I am doing something interesting, I hardly ever buy her anything, make her buy her own drinks if we go out. And on the advice of a PUA, have sex in every position and make sure I get a BJ every time. Although personally I am quite happy with just ordinary missionary, but I have to show masculinity and dominance in the bedroom. Always insist she makes me a sandwich or cup of coffee or both after sex, no matter how tired she is.
Now for some unknown reason, she is treating me much better than ever before, I hardly ever get any bitching or complaining. She smiles a lot more, shouts at the kids less. I have hardly any trouble at all and she seems more contented. I use similar tactics in work, I am really friendly to one or two of the girls on one day, while totally ignoring the others, the next day its the other way round. I have them eating out of my hand, I get away with so much now, its almost unbelievable, no hassle at all, for once in my life its a pleasure to go to work in the morning.
Without sounding arrogant. I honestly think that there are a few girls there that would sleep with me if I asked. I think my wife now senses that there are others who want me, and that is working in my favour,
I don’t understand it, and I never will, I used to be such a nice guy, I did everything for my wife, I was always there for her, spent all my money on her, took her out every year for a really expensive valentine’s day dinner. Bought her a car, which she snubbed at. All I got was treated like shit,
Why have I got to be like this. I just want to be myself!
@improving: Wow thank you so much for sharing your experience, its so wonderful to hear that you have successfully been able to apply many of the techniques that you have learnt.
While I love what they teach in the PUA community, the techniques, the pick up lines and the different attitudes towards women, I think the biggest benefit of men learning about attracting and seducing women is the personal growth and the boost of self confidence they gain in the process.
I can tell you the biggest shift your wife has probably seen, is your renewed ability to lead, and a higher level of self confidence.
What are some of the shifts that you have seen in yourself during this process? Are they internal shifts, or are you simply role playing?
I think its great to experiment when you are learning new things like seduction, but part of a fulfilling committed relationship is being able to express who and what you really are. Ask yourself the question if you were gaining anything personally from doing all those things you did for your wife in the past. Did you want her approval or did you simply want to make her happy?
Ask these questions to yourself and let me know how you go =)
Hot Alpha Female
Hi,
Can you provide the link to the specific article or the title? I’m interested in learning more about the effectiveness of DD’s methods.
I’ve been the stereotypical nice guy throughout high school and I’m almost finishing up college but I still haven’t had a girlfriend. I can’t reconcile the belief that “girls want nice guys” with my personal experiences. I’m 5″11 and 150 pounds and people have said I look “cute”.Therefore, either girls aren’t interested in nice guys or I’m not a nice guy. But I don’t see how the latter can be true as I know exactly how I act and talk.
I’ve posted this on other forums and the women just told me to wait and “the right girl will come”. I don’t believe them and I don’t want to wait. It’s actually getting very frustrating not “having any” and I’m slowly turning into a misogynist (the fox and his sour grapes). Hopefully, I’ll have some success with DD’s techniques.
I appreciate blogs like this that illuminate the mysterious world of attraction.
@Jhonny: I would suggest that if you want to get started with David D’s stuff – just sign up to his newsletter. You will learn so much from them and best of all they are free. You can access his newsletter here; http://www.doubleyourdating.com/
The advice that you got from the forum “the right girl will come” is absolute BULLS**T and I’m so glad that you have decided to take personal responsibility. If that is the case, you have come to the right place.
Learning about attraction is one part of the process. The more important part of the process is learning and developing skills and character strengths which help you grow into a truly strong man. This will have a ripple effect not only in your interaction with women, but on your whole life. It is a process. It will take some time. But the results will be more rewarding that you have ever imagined.
Get ready for the journey.
Hot Alpha Female
Thanks for the reply. Here’s something I don’t understand.
What’s the big deal about being funny?
I’m confident but not very funny. I’m mostly interested in talking about politics and economics. I don’t find most jokes to be funny so it’s really hard for me to make jokes. I talk like how I’m writing right now so I’m not very fun.
David talked about how attraction is not logical, but it just boggles my mind how being funny is more important than looks, career, intelligence, and other seemingly vital factors.
I don’t want to spend time chasing after girls because I have to work on my career. I guess I’m not going to put getting girls as my primary goal so that part will definitely suffer.
The Asian culture made me think that if I “study hard and work hard” I’ll get everything I want — including women. But, apparently that’s not true.
@Johnny
, to what i am aware of;
Good question:”funny” this baffled me and my friends ages ago, as we noticed we could get away with practically murder, thats another story
Funny is a sign of not intellect but intelligence (the active ability to juxtapose nonsensical ideas e.g. Gradmas, birthdays, peeing in the shower) *slight chuckle eh?
good to be aware of: if Funny was on a spectrum, on one side you have Goofy & on the other you have Humor
To what I am aware of Humor is a leadership trait you cant fake, where you are being funny from a place of ‘invitingly holding your ground’ the overall underlying subconscious msg is … I am in control of myself and the situation, you are no safer than you’re with me.
Goofy is a wussy trait where you are being funny ‘to seek approval, attention’ e.g. saying too many jokes, with lack of timing or context; the underlying msg is I dont know who I am and can you be my parent; it leaves a bad taste in the air.
Hey this is more interesting: they did a study of the fortune 500 companies and asked directors of the board what were the top 5 traits they wanted in their senior leadership management, Humor was number 2 or 3 in all cases.
I dont know about you but it seems anything that expresses leadership (Humor), security, poise, is a major plus in all situations especially your upcoming girlfriends.
cheers bud, never run in the muddy rain with a super hero costume, Rock n roll,
@Johnny: I think it’s important to distinguish between “being funny” and developing a sense of humor. I’m sure that there are some things that make you laugh right? What are some of those things? How can you expand them? How can you incorporate them into your interactions with women. It’s not just about being funny. A good sense of humor can be attractive to a woman, because you are able to bypass a lot of her shit tests and so on. But if you can do that by other means there is no NEED to focus on becoming this super ultra funny guy. Think about some of the things that amuse you and then get back to me.
@Romyl: Thank you for contributing =) Yes, humor is something that you can’t fake, I do believe it a skill that you can develop and I think it will come a lot more naturally to someone who is really grounded and present with themselves. Humor also indicates flexibility and a greater general ease with life. These are all parts which make up a strong and independent man.
Hot Alpha Female
Here is my opinion. I find in my experience that these pickup artists generally fall into two camps. You just have to read their material to find out which one they belong to. They are, PUAs all about getting laid and PUAs all about relationships. And then of course there are the in-betweens.
I recently listened to a webcast by John Sinn and there was this recurring theme throughout. Getting laid, getting laid, getting laid – he was transparent about it. I also find that the ones that are about bedding girls are usually more formulaic and seemingly manipulative vibe. I think we need way less of these as there is a correlation between rampant casual sex and all the stds and dysfunctional relationship. I heard a blogger once say, why sleep with someone who’s spirit doesn’t resonate with your own? who needs all that negative energy? I agree.
Alex Coulson is about relationships. Dave Wygant is about relationships first, getting laid second and guys like Richard La Ruina, David D are somewhere in between. Just as an observation of what I perceived their selling-points to be.
So, to sum it up. I think escalating sexually requires more “games” to get past women’s natural defenses and short-circuit natural objections that she has for a reason. Whereas building relationships with women is a much more fluid dynamic process that can become a part of you and not so much a routine and is much more respectful to both parties.
There’s a difference between being a PUA and generally help men be comfortable with themselves. I’m truly against scripted stuff and talking to a girl just to get laid. For me, it’s all about being in the moment, having fun, and meeting girls whether we have a one night stand or a 5 year relationship. My father never gave me advice, and in school and college I didn’t talk to girls that often because I was afraid, which sucked.
Since reading his books and watching his DVDs I’ve learned some valuable communication skills and have made loads of friends on the way.
It’s not about getting laid, it’s about feeling comfortable talking to women, making relationships and having fun. At least for me.
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